-QUESTIONS & ANSWERS-

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Questions & Answers
Q: Hello.
I have a question about flagpoles and flagpole history.  I hope you can help.  I had heard that the truck of the flagpole flying the American flag is supposed to contain several items.  Can you tell me what these items are or where where I might find the information?  Thank you very much.  Christopher

Hi Christopher,

I have installed many flagpoles.  The truck attachment to commercial flagpoles is like the cap on a pipe.  The flagpoles is a long metal, usually aluminum today, tube, hollow on the inside.  The truck is a cap the covers the top of the pole and keeps the weather, and rain, out.  It also serves to hold the pulley through which the rope halyard runs to raise and lower the flags.

The third purpose is to hold the finial, or ornament at the top of the pole.  Therefore the truck usually has a hole tapped in the center into which a bolt can be screwed.  The most common finial is a gold ball which allows the flag to easily slide off if the flag flies on top of it.  Also used are eagles in the US. Other countries use other finials, but the ball is still most common.  The truck is held in place by screws tightened against the pole.

Hope this helps you.   Lee L. Herold

AND....

From the Flags of the World web site FAQ page #3 <http://fotw.digibel.be/flags/faq3.html#usa>: What is in the "ball cap" on top of a flagpole flying the U.S. flag?

Nothing.  There is a persistent rumor left over from the Cold War that the "ball"-type finials atop poles flying U.S. flags contain a razor or similar instrument, so that the U.S. flag may be destroyed in the event of a successful enemy attack to prevent its capture by the enemy.  No evidence for this has ever been found.  It's just a legend.

To which I add: At West Point, plebes who are "know-it-alls" are usually asked this question repeatedly until they break and beg for the answer, and this version is a little different than the above.  They are told it contains a match, a bullet and a grain of rice in case of a successful enemy attack.  The rice will sustain the soldier to do what needs to be done; the match is used to destroy the flag so it will not be captured; the bullet is used for the same purpose so the soldier will not be captured.
Dave Martucci

Q: Dear Friend,
Thanks for trying to help with this.  I write a question and answer column for a newspaper in Manchester, NH. This reader has me stumped.  Here is the question: "A neighbor of mine has come across an American flag that has gold stars.  This has been stored away for a number of years.  Can you find out just what the gold stars mean?"

Sorry she didn't say how many gold stars there were or give me any more information.  Can you help?
Mary Ann

A: Dear Mary Ann,

Thanks for your question.  I am not sure either, and the number of stars could make a difference.  The actual arrangement of the stars was not established until 1912 with the 48 star flag.  Before that any arrangement was available, even though most were made in a similar pattern.  Therefore, there were variations in both the way the stars were arranged and on occasion the color.  The number of stars would help determine the year, and that would give us a clue as to why the stars may have been made gold.

There was also the Gold Star home window flag, the gold star meant a son or daughter who died in the service of the country, a blue star for a child serving.  This had a red border, not stripes.

In addition, there are decorative flags.  Some are parsed US flags, that is they have a few stars & stripes, meant to represent, not "be" the US flag.  They are for decoration when the full US flag is not desired.  Many companies make these for the holidays for homes that use decorative seasonal flags.

I have forwarded you request to Nick Artimovich, who I think would have more information on your case than I.

Again, thanks for contacting me and good luck on your column.  You must learn a lot.   Lee L. Herold

Q: Hi! I enjoyed your web site! I was wondering if you would be able to offer some assistance to my son, Ryan. He has a homework question, and we have been unable to find the answer in our searching this weekend. The question is: Why do most countries use the color red in their flags -- what does red symbolize? Do you happen to know the answer to this?? Thank you in advance for your time!

Hello (Dad) and son Ryan,

Without a doubt red is one of the most popular colors on flags (white is another). Fact is, each country defines the meaning of the colors, and these meanings can be very different from place to place. Try looking on the Flags of the World web site for specific meanings in specific flags. http://www.digibel.be/flags/ . Dave Martucci
Q: Can you verify a pre-revolutionary flag that was raised on Taunton Green in Taunton, Mass., circa 1773-1775?  Thank you for any info. you can give.

A: Here's what we know for sure.

Several publications have quoted "The Boston Evening Post," Monday, October 24, 1774 (although there are some slight differences in the quotes).  According to The FLAG BULLETIN Vol. II, No. 2 (Winter 1962-63), Page 22 the Archives of the Boston Athenaeum has a copy.  The quote according to "Standards and Colors of the American Revolution" by Edward Richardson is "We have just received the following intelligence from Taunton -- that on Friday last [Oct 21, 1774] a liberty pole 112 feet long was raised there on which a vane, and a Union flag flying with the words Liberty and Union thereon."

The FLAG BULLETIN article by Ruth Howland (reprinted by permission from the July 1962 issue of "Yankee" magazine) gives the quote as "We have just received the following from Taunton that on Friday last a liberty pole and a Union flag were raised there, on which is a Tory and a Union flag flying with the words Liberty and Union thereon."

My notes indicate Peleg Harrison's book on the US Flag stated it was "a Union flag flying with the word Liberty and Union thereon."

This suggests a very different design than the previous quotes, although it is very possible I copied it wrong (I don't own the book).

I have always meant to drop by the Athenaeum and see for myself just how the quote is worded.  Dave Martucci
Q: Could you please tell me this information: How many holes were put in the American Flag - Old Glory at the Battle at time the Star Spangled Banner was written.

A: Greetings:
It has been some time since I received this message but thought I'd put in my two cent's worth.

We really don't know much of the history of the Star Spangled Banner between 1814 and when it was photographed for George Preble's pamphlet "Three Historic Flags and Three September Victories."  This photo is reproduced at the Smithsonian's web site: http://www.si.edu/nmah/objects/krtssb/ssbh/ssbh.htm

It was taken at the Charlestown Navy Yard in Boston in the 1870's.  You can see that the large hole encompassing one of the stars was missing, as was much of the flags fly end.  Legend says that Lincoln was given the star, and that Armistead gave away pieces of the flag to settle gambling debts.

Armistead was given the flag upon leaving Ft. McHenry.  The Smithsonian site tells who had the flag from that time on.  See
http://www.si.edu/nmah/objects/krtssb/ssbh/html/3a.htm.  It lists who owned it and a few of the places it was displayed. What damage was done during the war and what happened subsequently is hard to tell...

Hope this helps. Was any of this info new, or contrary to what you had already received?  Nick Artimovich

Q: I just wanted to know what the color red meant on the Italian flag? I am a 10 year old 5th grade student doing a family history project about Italy.  Thank you.
Michael


A: Hi Michael,

Unfortunately, I can't specifically tell you what the red stands for, if it does have special meaning.  Maybe another NAVA member knows.  However, I can tell you a short history of how it came to on the flag.

From "Flags Across the World and Through the Ages" by Dr. Whitney Smith pg 144-145.  As Italians strove for a republic against the monarchy, symbols of 3 colors became popular, beginning in 1789, due to the influence of the French Revolution.

The Urban Militia of Milan had green & white uniforms.  When Napoleon invaded Lombardy in 1796 this militia became the republic National Guard, and added crimson (red) to their uniforms.  On the 9th of October 1796 each cohort (a unit of the military) received a standard or flag of 3 colors, green, white, red - which may have been the basis of the national Italian flag.

In the new Cisalpine Republic formed under Napoleons occupation, the Italian Legion wore cockades on their hats of green, white & red. On 7 Jan 1797 a tricolor flag was adopted for this republic, the first authentic Italian national flag.

I hope this helps you some.  Lee L. Herold
Q: SORRY TO BOTHER YOU, BUT I'M LOOKING FOR A PICTURE OF A PENOBSCOT INDIAN TRIBAL FLAG FROM BANGOR/OLD TOWN MAINE.  I HAD ONE, BUT LOST IT DURING A MOVE.  IF YOU COULD HELP ME I WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE IT.  THANKS

A: The Penobscot actually have two flags, the one of the tribal government is white with the tribal seal in black (see image at left).  According to the Vexillon winning "Flags of the Native Peoples of the United States" by Don Healy (published in NAVA's RAVEN 3-4, which is *still available*): "In the center of the seal is a Penobscot warrior, possibly Sockalexis, in profile, surrounded by an ornate border that resembles three tombstones, each forming a cross.  On the arm of each cross is the name of a particular virtue -- 'PURITY', 'FAITH', and 'VALOR' -- the three comprising the tribal motto.  In a ring around the bust is the name of the tribe in English and in Penobscot 'PENOBSCOT NATION' and 'BUR-NUR-WURB-SKEK'.  Behind the warrior is a pine forest."  "The three crosses symbolize the Holy Trinity ... Each cross also carries a year: under 'PURITY' is '1605', the year English Captain Weymouth kidnapped five Penobscots and took them to England; under 'FAITH' is '1687', the year the first Catholic mission was established on Indian Island; under 'VALOR' is '1612', the year of the war with the Eastern Abenaki.  At the base of each of the three crosses, outside the circle, are tree branches representing tribal growth."

"Two dates appear in a ring surrounding Sockalexis' portrait.  At the top is '1669', commemorating the war with the Iroquois, at the bottom is '1749', marking the treaty of peace with Massachusetts that ended King George's War.  The twelve flint fire starters in the ring symbolize the unity of the tribe.  The entire seal has a serrated edge, a whole circle to denote the sun."

"In addition to the tribal government flag, the Penobscot people have a 'tribal flag' which hangs in the Tribal Council Chambers, and has been described as multi-colored, bearing a wikiyup and other symbols."  Dave Martucci
Q: Hi,
There are two stores here in Houston that hang the US and Texas flag from the rafters in the store (Sam's on 610 and Home Depot on 610 @ 59)  They can be seen from both sides and are not against a wall.  Something does not seem right about them.  Assuming they were meant to be viewed from the side which would allow the US flag's blue to be in the upper left corner, which side of the US flag should the Texas flag be on and which side should the red (bottom) be on.  Also, what is the correct order of the Six Flags of Texas.  Info on how to hang the US flag is easy to come by but not so easy for the Texas flag.  The library and two Eagle Scouts could not answer my ?'s. Thanks, Chris

A: Dear Chris,

I'll try to answer your question by quoting the Texas Flag Code (you can view the full text at http://www.tsl.state.tx.us/lobby/ref/6139c.htm).

It sounds like the flags are hanging vertically.  The US flag would be to its own right (the position of honor), which would correspond to the observer's left.  The Texas flag would, therefore, be to the observer's right of the U.S. flag:
(f) The state flag, when carried in a procession with another flag or flags except the United States flag, should be either on the marching right, that is, the state flag's right, or, if there is a line of other flags, in front of the center of that line.  When the state flag is carried in a procession in which the United States flag is carried, the United States flag should be on the marching right, that is, the United States flag's right, and the state flag should be on the United States flag's left.

Here's the explanation of how to orient the state flag when it is displayed vertically:
(o) When the state flag is displayed horizontally, the white stripe should be uppermost and to the state flag's left, that is, to the observer's right.  When displayed in a window, the state flag should be displayed in the same way, with the blue stripe to the left of an observer who is outside the window.  When the state flag is displayed vertically, the blue stripe should be uppermost and the white stripe should be to the state flag's right, that is, to the observer's left.

The question of what order to display the "Six Flags of Texas" is a little complicated.  The U.S. flag, of course, goes to its own right, that is, the observer's left.  The Texas Flag Code states that the Texas flag should come next, but this does violate international protocol, which would give precedence to the flags of other countries.  It isn't a problem for the Spanish and French flags as the current national flags of those two countries aren't used in the "Six Flags" display.  It is a problem if the current Mexican flag is used, which uses a side view of the eagle.  The historical Mexican flag from the 1820s to 1836 has a front view of the eagle; unfortunately, it's hard to purchase that flag.  If a historical flag is used for Mexico, I believe the logical sequence (in chronological order for the last four flags) would be (from the observer's left to right) United States (current 50-star version), State of Texas, Kingdom of Spain (horizontal stripes of red, gold, and red defaced with a castle-and-lion badge surmounted with a crown), Kingdom of France (numerous gold fleur-de-lis on a white field), United Mexican States (1820s version), and the Confederate States of America (I recommend the Stars and Bars, which has three horizontal stripes (red-white-red) and a blue union with stars in a circle).

Hope this helps.

Charles A Spain

P.S. I'm an Eagle Scout, so at least one of us can answer your question!

Q: Hello ~
My name is Elizabeth, and I'm a senior in high school.  I got your e-mail address from the NAVA web site, and though not sure you're the most appropriate person to direct my question to, I figure you can direct me elsewhere if that is the case.  I bought a baseball cap that features a picture of a flag on the front, and I'm trying to find out what the flag means.  Suggestions have so far included the flag of an old rail road or a hurricane warning flag, but I can't find confirmation of either. Here's what it looks like.... A red rectangle, with a black rectangle in the center.  The black rectangle is outlined in white.
 (The red one is outlined in black, but I don't know if that's part of the flag or just the design.)  Any help is greatly appreciated!  Thank you very much!

A: Hi Elizabeth,
Your instincts are pretty good with flags.  I strongly suspect the flag is the hurricane warning flag, a red square, with a black square centered in it.  The gale flag is a red pennant (triangle shaped) flag.  The hurricane flags are rated by wind speed, and 2 indicate a stronger hurricane.  Hope this helps.  Lee L. Herold

Q: Hi, we need the flag symbolism of Algeria.

A: According to "Flags Across the World and Through the Ages" by Dr. Whitney Smith, and "Flags of the World" by Dr. Wm Crampton, the flag was first used in 1928 as they sought independence, and in 1962 on independence the flag was adopted, slightly altered.  The green represents is the traditional color of the Muslim faith, the white represents purity.  The horns of the crescent are longer than usual representing good fortune or happiness, and the crescent and star recall the period of Ottoman rule during the 16th century.  The crescent and star are believed to the the symbol of the city of Constantinople, conquered by the Muslims and this symbol adopted.  The red color represent liberty.  Lee L. Herold

Q: Do you have any biographical information on Rebecca Young, one of the early flag makers.  Specifically, where and when was she born, who was the Young to whom she was married and where did they live?  When were her children born? Thanks for whatever you can provide.

A: Not too much biographical info is known about Rebecca Young.

Rebecca Young advertised as a flag maker in the Philadelphia Newspapers during the Revolutionary War and Theodore Gottlieb, who did considerable research on the subject, states that she was paid "at least thirty times" for making flags for the Quartermaster Department of the Continental Army and the Pennsylvania Navy.  Actually, Gottlieb may have been mistaken since a close examination of the receipts in the National Archives shows many of the entries are duplicates.  By my count, she made five flags in 1781-82.  In receipts dated 1780, some of them are signed by William Young; I don't know if this is a husband or a son.

After the War, in October 1784, she was paid for sewing the Standard of the First United States Regiment commanded by Lt. Colonel Josiah Harmar.  After this, there are no further records of her but her daughter and granddaughter continued the tradition by making one of America's most famous flags.

Mrs. Mary Young Pickersgill of Baltimore, a "maker of ships banners and flags," assisted by her daughter Mrs. Caroline Purdy, under contract to the United States Government in 1813 manufactured the U.S. Flag that has now become known as the "Star Spangled Banner" and was used as the garrison flag of Fort McHenry during the British siege of 1814.

Dave Martucci

Q: I am constructing a Japanese flag.  I've seen that the overall dimensions of the flag should be a 2:3 ratio, but is there an official ratio between the central red circle to the fly and hoist dimensions?  Any clarifying information would be appreciated. Thank you.

Thanks for your inquiry.  I am uncertain if the recent readoption of the Japanese flag made any changes in its traditional proportions, which are either 7:10 or 2:3 as you stated.  By tradition, I am referring to the official designs that were adopted 27 January 1870 in decree no. 57 of the Central Government of the Restoration for government usages and the decree No. 651 dated 3 October 1870 for Japanese Naval flags.  Although strictly speaking, these decrees ceased to be official after 1947, both were still followed by the Japanese government and I would guess these are still the law today.  Nowadays, most flag manufacturers follow the second decree even for usages on land.

The first decree set the overall proportions at 7:10 as I have stated; the diameter of the red circle was 3/5 the width of the hoist and it was centered on a point that is 49/100 of the distance of the fly from the hoist.  In other words, if the flag is 70 units by 100 units, the red ball is 42 units in diameter and the hoist edge of it is set 28 units from the hoist while the fly edge of it is set 30 units from the fly.  From the top and bottom of the red ball to the top and bottom of the flag is 14 units respectively.

The second decree set the overall proportions at 2:3 and the diameter of the red circle at 3/5 the width of the hoist and it is centered on a point at the exact center of the flag.  In other words, if the flag is 70 units by 105 units, the red ball is 42 units in diameter and the edges of it are set 31.5 units from the hoist and the fly.  From the top and bottom of the red ball to the top and bottom of the flag is 14 units respectively.  Here is the example comparison in chart form:

PROPORTION HOIST FLY RED BALL (diameter) HOIST TO BALL BALL TO FLY BALL TO TOP/BOT
7:10 70 100 42 28 30 14
2:3 70 105 42 31.5 31.5 14

To be absolutely correct for land-based usages, the first is your best bet.  But most flags in Japan follow the second set of proportions. Good Luck!  Dave Martucci

(Note: The following is a two-part question....Ed)

Q: 1- How and when did the white flag become the symbol of peace and surrrender?

A: The FLAG BULLETIN, No. 155 (Nov-Dec 1993),"52 Vexillological Questions Posed to the FRC," pg. 252 states:
"A plain white flag has been used as a symbol of peace ... and ... is also sometimes a flag of surrender, but the first use of the white flag for this purpose is not known to the Flag Research Center.

"That usage may have evolved from the white flag as a symbol of truce, which supposedly dates back to 1095 [CE] when Pope Urban II proclaimed the 'Peace of God' to be observed between belligerents on certain holidays.  On the other hand Jehan de Wawrin's 'Chronicle' refers to an incident when a Christian fleet was at anchor in the Bosporus in 1444.  A Turk on shore displayed a white pennant which 'according to their custom signified safety and a wish to parley.'  This suggests that the custom was not known to the Christians from Western Europe at that time, but was adopted by them later, based on this usage familiar to the Ottoman Turks."

In a series of follow-ups to this statement, appearing in FB # 161 and 172, the following is added:
"... on p. 22 of 'The National Flag of Japan' by N. Matsunami (published by the author in 1928): the 'Chronicle of the Empress Jingo (201-269 CE) mentions that the king of Silla had hoisted a white flag of surrender."  "... Matsunami's claim that the king of Silla state in Korea flew a white flag of surrender could not have occured before the middle of the 7th century CE and is at best based on a 15th century source."

The FB also ran some extensive articles on the symbols of Peace, including the color white, some time ago but that material is too extensive to quote.  If you are interested I could copy it for you and mail it at cost.

Q: 2- When and why did the signs for Red mean stop and Green mean Go.

This is an interesting question as it is exactly the reverse in China, where green means STOP and red means GO.  Probably the color red signifying STOP originated with the signal for danger (a plain red flag) which dates at least to the early years of the 19th century (railroads in the USA) and probably earlier.  Green was probably adopted as the opposite color. BTW, the Chinese convention I cited began during the Cultural Revolution of the mid- to late-1960s. Dave Martucci

Q: I have enjoyed your flag sites on the internet.  NAVA site suggests I might ask you a question - I am writing a book about the Bedford Flag.  We claim it is the oldest entire flag in the US.  Is this right?  I know of the Moulton Flag, the Louisbourg Flag, and the fragments in the Governer's Palace in New Mexico, but little detail.  Are these the oldest flags or are there more lurking somewhere?  Thanks for your help

A: It is believed that the Bedford Flag could be the oldest extant flag in the United States.  I say "could be" because dating such items is not an exact science.  The fragments in New Mexico are unknown to me, but the Pizarro Flag, which pre-dates the Bedford Flag, is supposedly still extant in Mexico City, Mexico.  The Moulton Flag (a MAINE Regiment) dates from 1745, as does the Louisbourg flag you mention.  Recently, a flag was found by a collector on Long Island, NY that probably dates from the late 17th century (a New England pattern militia flag of the 5th Regt.) but it is still undergoing examination. Most vexillologists believe (the book by the Friends of the Bedford Flag notwithstanding) the Bedford Flag was made in England in the mid-17th century, so it would appear to be the oldest in the USA.  However, if the argument in the Friends book that the materials could date from the early 18th century is accepted, then the NE 5th Regt. Militia flag presently in NY would apparently be the oldest.  Of course, at any time new items could come to light to change any or all of this.

Your safest bet is to say something like "The Bedford Flag has been long believed to be the oldest flag still extant in the USA ..." Hope this helps. Dave Martucci

Q: Enjoyed your page.  I wonder if you could help me find the flags that are flown to indicate wind conditions and storm warnings.  I really would appreciate it very much.  I've been to NOAA to encyclopedias to the sailingindex.com but no luck.  I hope you can spare a few minutes and clue me in.

A: Boy!  Sometimes the easiest questions are the hardest to answer! I spent some time tracking down this info, but finally found it.  This is one of those things I think I know by heart but finding written confirmation of it was not that obvious.

The old weather flags are no longer in official use, although the Hurricane Warning and Small Craft Advisory Warning signals are often seen on TV weather broadcasts.  Formerly (and I don't know the date when they were discontinued, but I think it was in the 60s or 70s) a series of two flags were hoisted to indicate a storm and the direction it was approaching from: SW Winds, storm flag [red square with a black square in the center], over a white pennant; NW Winds, white pennant over the storm flag; NE Winds, red pennant over the storm flag; SE Winds, storm flag over a red pennant.  A Hurricane Warning was
indicated by two storm flags, one over the other and a Small Craft Advisory was indicated by a red pennant.

In addition, before radio became widely used, there were a series of weather forecasting flags used by the National Weather Service and displayed at all light house installations and Coast Guard Facilities.  A square white flag indicated fair weather, a square blue flag indicated rain or snow, a square flag divided horizontally into unequal stripes of 4:3* white over blue indicated local rain or snow, a black equal triangle flag indicated extreme change in temperature and a square white flag with a black square in the center indicated a cold wave.  The September 1934 National Geographic article on flags says these were falling out of use then.  Dave Martucci
Q: Hopefully you can point me in the right direction to have this question answered.  I am looking for a reference guide or resource to locating the "official" colors of a specific flag.  This information is needed for the design of a publication where an exact color match is critical (i.e. Pantone, TOYO, Truematch, etc. color reference number).  I am specifically looking for the exact value/hue for the Red and Blue of the Cuban flag.  I would assume these colors are established standards, but I have been unable to locate any resource for this information.  I would greatly appreciate any assistance you could provide.

Color matching is not an exact science for flags, in general.  Although there are some flags that are specified as to exact shades using Pantone or some such system, most are not.  A good story is that of Sweden.  About the turn of the century, actual samples of the correct colors of the Swedish flag were made and kept in the capitol for reference by flag makers.  The blue was somewhat dark and the yellow very bright.  Over the years, these samples faded so that the Swedish flag by the 1980s (when the phenomena was discovered) became a light blue and pale yellow color.

Cuba does not specify exact colors.  The Flags of the World web site and email list uses a pallete of 16 basic "browser-safe" colors and these constitute the vast majority of the colors used.  Most manufacturers have their own standard hues.  FIAV (International Federation of Vexillological Assns.) recognizes approximate color variations expressed by the use of a single letter with the addition of "plus" or "minus" signs for variations in hue.  Thus, medium blue is expressed B, light blue as B- and Navy Blue as B+.

There is more discussion of the use of colors on the Flags of the World Web Site http://www.digibel.be/flags/

Hope this helps you out. Dave Martucci
Q: I found your name on the NAVA web site and would like to take advantage of your offer to answer questions.  I am acquainted with the Bedford Flag, which is painted on a fabric of rich red damask.  Is damask a very unusual material to use for an English colonial flag?  Did our tailor pull a Scarlett O'Hara and pull down some curtains to fashion the flag?  Thanks for your consideration.

A: With respect to "Scarlet" it wouldn't surprise me in the least.  Yes, damask is an unusual material for flag purposes, but in the Colonies flags were often made of whatever material was at hand.  For those who may not be familiar with such things, damask is a firm, glossy patterned fabric with a Jacquard weave.  The patterns are woven so that the "front" side usually has satin face designs which are reversed on the "back" side.  In two-color damask the colors reverse on either side.  Damask is similar to brocade but flatter and reversible; it may be linen, cotton, rayon or silk, or a combination of fibers.  It is most commonly used for making table linen, draperies and upholstery.  Another type of damask, called double damask, is woven with both ground and pattern in eight-shaft satin weave.  It has a firm texture and is used for formal table linens.

In my experience, admittedly with mostly "Civil War" flags, the most common materials used to make flags were wool and Silk. There were, however, many cotton and linen flags made, even though for a time (before the cotton "gin") cotton was considerably more expensive than wool.  Nonetheless, the exigencies of the times considered, a "Scarlet O'Hara" is not out of the question.  I hope they removed the rod.  Richard R. Gideon

Q: I got your address off of the NAVA Research page and I have a question regarding the proper protocol for burning the flag in a cermony.  I have seen this done once at a Boy Scouts of America summer camp.  The flag was old and riped and was ready to be "retired".  One thing I do remember them saying was that the US military and the Boy Scouts where the only 2 organization who could "legally" burn the flag.  If you have any information on this I would appriciate the input.

A: In response to the question who can burn the American flag.  Welcome to the USA where if it is your flag you may burn it... with a few cautions.  Some cities may have rules about burning trash, which would forbid you from burning the flag as a means of disposal.  This may be why you think that only the military or scouts can burn the flag, there may be provision in local ordinances allowing for this exception to these organizations.  Nathan Bliss

Q: I'm trying to find photos or accurate color drawings of the "1824" flag (Alamo) AND the "Liberty or Death" flag (Goliad).  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

A: Unfortunately, I know of no photographs or "accurate" drawings because there are not (to the best of my knowledge) any surviving examples of the "1824" flag or the "Liberty or Death" flag from Goliad.

In my opinion, it is highly unlikely that the "1824" flag flew at the Alamo as this flag represented the sentiments of those Texians like Stephen F. Austin who wanted to remain part of Mexico, but as a separate state (at that time, Texas was part of El Estado de Coahuila y Tejas) in a federal system loyal to the Mexican federal constitution of 1824.  The 1824 flag was actually adopted by the Provisional Government of Texas on November 29, 1835 as an ensign for registered civil vessels and vessels sailing under letters of marque and reprisal.  This flag disappeared from use after the adoption of the 1836 national standard and the 1836 national flag for the naval service.  The land use of the 1824 flag, if any, is not documented.

The "Liberty or Death" flag from Goliad is referred to as the Troutman flag.  In November 1835, Johanna Troutman made a lone star flag in Crawford County, Georgia.  This flag is said to have consisted of white silk displaying a blue embroidered lone star and the words "LIBERTY OR DEATH" on one side and on the reverse the motto "UBI LIBERTAS HABITAT, IBI NOSTRA PATRIA EST" ("where liberty resides, there is our homeland").  Troutman presented her flag to William Ward's Georgia Battalion, which carried the flag to Texas and unfurled it at Velasco on January 8, 1836, over the American Hotel.  The flag was later carried to Goliad, where James W. Fannin raised it on March 8, 1836, to celebrate the news of the Texas Declaration of Independence.  The Troutman flag was reportedly destroyed by the wind during the Goliad Campaign of 1836 when it got caught in its halyard.  I hope this is of some help to you. Charles Spain


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