-QUESTIONS & ANSWERS-

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Questions & Answers
Q: Did the Sioux Indians have there own flag?

Dear Megaswim:
The Native Ameicans cultures of North America did not historically carry flags of their own. It has only been in recent years that Native tribes have adopted flags. There are also several distinct Souix organizations scattered all over the U.S. Many with their own flags.  The person who literally "wrote the book" on Native American flags is Don Healy, also a NAVA memeber, but I don't have his email address. You might want to contact our treasurer, Peter Orenski at TMEALF@aol.com . He has books and posters for sale showing the various Sioux flags.  I'm sorry that I couldn't be of any more help.  John H. Gamez

--and--

The various tribes of the Sioux Nation did and do have their own flags. Several years ago, NAVA published THE FLAGS OF THE NATIVE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED STATES, a book and an accompanying chart (the book is still in print for $25) that show the following Sioux flags:

Assiniboine & Sioux (Fort Peck) Tribes
Crow Creek Sioux
Flandreau Santee Sioux
Flandreau Santee Sioux (pre 1994)
Lower Brule Sioux
Oglala Sioux
Oglala Sioux (pre 1968)
Rosebud Sioux
Santee Sioux
Sisseton & Wahpeton Sioux
Standing Rock Sioux
United Sioux Tribes (Tribal Association)
Yankton Sioux

Dave Martucci

Q: I am helping to write a sesquicentennial history of our little Village of La Rue, Ohio laid out in 1851.  I would like to know where I can find a picture of the American Flag that was in use at that time.  I would like to include a picture of it in the  history.  I believe 31 states had been admitted to the Union then and assume that the flag had 31 stars. Correct me if I have made any erroneous assumptions and let me know where I might find a picture of the appropriate flag.
Thank you.
Betty 


Dear Betty:
Well, the answer to your question is not that simple.  First of all, there was no such thing as a single pattern for the US Flag in those days (this was first officially prescribed in 1912), so any flag maker could arrange the stars in any fashion as long as the number of them was correct.  In addition, there was not agreement on the number of points a star should have, which way they "point" or whether there should be more red stripes or more white stripes.

Which brings me to my next point.  When in 1851?  California was admitted to the Union on 9 September 1850 but the new star was not officially added to the flag on 4 July 1851.  Prior to that, the correct number would have been 30 stars.

The US Navy used flags with the stars in rows while private individuals and others used flags at that time that had the stars arranged in circles, ovals or in the shape of one big star.  One 31-star flag pictured in Mastai's "The Stars and The Stripes" shows one with the stars arranged in a pentagon.  Another in that book, which would be my suggestion as I think it is very beautiful, shows a larger, single star in the center (with a white "orle" around it, which is a sort of a border a little away from the star), two concentric circles of 10 and 16 stars respectively and one star in each corner, making a total of 31.  For a
small fee, I can make you a scale drawing of this flag for your purposes, if you wish.  I could also supply you with a short treatise on the flag at that time.  Please contact me for more details if you are interested.  Dave Martucci
Q: I hope to write a short paper on "an early" on aspect of my youth.  As a paper boy during the second world war I recalled the small flags displayed in home windows along my paper route.  These flags signified that a person from that home displaying that flag was a member of our armed forces and was helping in the fight.  I recall the number of the stars represented the number of people fighting from a specific home.  If killed the star was gold. My only questions are about the other colors.  Was the field white?  Were the servicemen represented by a blue star? ...RHZIK

A: Your recollections are correct.  The approximate 8" x 10" banner had a white panel surrounded by a red border with one of more blue stars in the center representing a family member in service.  The other version was one in which the star was gold rather than blue.  This meant the family member had died in defense of his/her country.  There was one gold star for an average of about every 110 households in the United States.  The service star concept actually originated a quarter century earlier during World War I.  Retired Capt. R. L. Queisser of Cleveland, Ohio, is given credit for suggesting the display of blue-star flags to represent those in service.  President Wilson endorsed a recommendation from a national women's advisory committee that a black arm band bearing a gold star be worn by war-bereaved relatives in place of the traditional black clothes of mourning.  The gold star would honor the nation's hero dead.  The gold star became a badge of pride and translated itself into the service flag hung in the window.  It also helped those adjusting to life without their loved ones, offering a bond of recognition that soon coalesced in to local Gold Star Mothers clubs.  Among gold-star shrines, Waterloo, Iowa, holds a special place.  There, five Sullivan brothers grew up and joined the Navy.  They made a special petition to serve on the same ship, the U.S.S Juneau.  In November of 1942, the ship was torpedoed off Guadalcanal and all five brothers perished.  In one dread episode, the Sullivan family became entitled to display a five-gold-star flag.  After the Juneau's loss, the Navy forbade close kin from serving on the same vessel.  A new destroyer, was christened in April 4, 1943, in a ceremony attended by Mrs. Thomas F. Sullivan, mother of the five brothers.

Reference source: World War II Remembered, 1943 Turning the Tide published by the U.S. Postal Service.

Personal Note: We had such a flag in our window in 1944 as my brother was serving with the Sixth Infantry Division in combat on Luzon.  What a joyous homecoming we had the day he returned safely from the war.  One of my widowed aunts displayed a gold star for my cousin who was killed during a bombing raid over Germany.   Truman Pope

...and...

A: The flag you are referring to is known as the US Service Banner. It is sometimes displayed as a banner and sometimes as a flag. It is white, with a red border around all four sides and displays either a blue star for a serviceman or a gold star for a serviceman who died for his country (hence the Gold Star Mothers organization). This emblem originated in World War I (although there were some dozen or so different symbols that could be used on it originally) and was used through the Korean War. I am not aware that it was in much use after that.  Dave Martucci

...and...

In addition to blue and gold stars, already discussed, there were silver stars to denote that the member of the armed forces was serving overseas.  My aunt had such a flag (white with a blue border) in her window with 2 silver stars for my cousins who were serving abroad.  The flags, regardless of the color of the stars, were usually hung like small banners, so that
the stars were displayed vertically.  On occasion one would see flags with stars of more than one color displayed simultaneously.  John Purcell

Hi:
What American flags could proudly be displayed on the property of a 1766 New England home built in Rockport, MA?
Thanks,
Linn


Hello Linn:
Well, the technical answer is that there were none as the concept of AMERICA did not really exist yet, except in Ben Franklin's mind. However, the first symbols that were later associated with the American endeavor were in existence. They are:

THE NEW ENGLAND FLAG; beginning in 1686, a distinctive flag for the New England colonies was used by certain local folks. It was a derivative of the unofficial Massachusetts Bay flag of 1636 and consisted of a red field with a white canton
(the same place the stars appear on the US Flag) bearing a red St. George's cross and a pine tree in the canton of the cross. Look at my New England Flag History page <http://www.midcoast.com/~martucci/flags/NEFlag.html> for an illustration of it. There was a second flag that looked somewhat the same but included the three non-canton quadrants of the first Union Jack, possibly dating from about 1707 but it is unknown if it was ever used much (except by John Hancock in 1774).

THE SONS OF LIBERTY FLAG; in 1763, the first organizing of what later became the Sons of Liberty took place. In 1765 there were some protests associated with several acts of Parliament concerning America and by tradition, the Boston Sons of Liberty displayed a flag that consisted of nine vertical (NOT horizontal as shown in many books) red and white stripes. The symbolism was very clear in those times; 5 red and 4 white stripes stood for the "45" a reference to the
issue number of "The North Briton" issued in 1763, authored by John Wilkes, a member of the House of Commons, who rebutted the King's message about America, for which he was imprisoned. "Wilkes and Liberty" became a rallying cry in North America and, following a speech by Col. Isaac Barre when the Stamp Act was debated in Parliament in 1765, in which he called the colonists "these sons of Liberty," the name stuck. It may also refer to the fact that nine colonies (5+4)
participated in the Stamp Act Convention's Declaration of Rights in 1765. As late as 1799 there were American flags composed of vertical stripes.

Other flags used in the late 1760s included various LIBERTY flags and flags with inscriptions such as "LIBERTY, PROPERTY and NO STAMPS" or "THE KING, PITT, and LIBERTY," usually set on the field of the British Red Ensign.

There! Take your pick!  Dave Martucci
Q: I have just come across a 38 star American flag; it is 75" x 43"  It is in worn but in fine condition, with hand stitched stars and bars. With a top row of 7 followed by 4 rows of 6 and a last row of 7 stars. its identified on the border with the word WIND 545 MNN OR MAIN; hand written,. very faint.  How can I find out more about this flag?  Is a 38 star flag a rare find?  Is the star formation I gave above typical?  I know that the double rings of stars was very popular.  Thank you

A: The US 38 Star flag was created for the admission of Colorado to the Union on Aug. 1, 1876.  The flag became official on July 4, 1877.  This flag was official until the 43 star flag was adopted on July 4, 1890.  If it is not a reproduction (and 38 star flags are still made today) it would be quite old and rare.  I have found reputable antique dealers are good people to appraise the value.

Until President Taft issued an executive order in 1912 to make official specifications for the US flag, there were no official standards, and each company making flags had some flexibility.  I assume when the government departments requested flags they specified relative sizes, particularly the US Navy.  These probably became the standards. But they were many  variations.  Reproductions today show 8-7-8-7-8 as a pattern.  The 32 star 7-6-6-6-7, 37 star 8-7-7-7-6, and 44 star 8-7-7-7-7-8, US flag reproductions show the pattern you described of a long top row, short rows, long row (your's was 7-6-6-6-6-7).

I have forwarded your question to the NAVA webmaster and perhaps other NAVA members can add to the information. Please advise if your question was not fully answered.  Lee Herold

Q:  I need to know what was the symbolism behind flying a flag at half mast as a sign of mourning when the custom was first introduced at sea in the 17th century?

A: The custom originated as a sign that the invisible flag of death was flown above the flag at "half staff," which isn't half at all, but rather should be lowered to a point where such a flag would be if another flag the same size was flying over it.
Dave Martucci
Q: Hello,
I was hoping you could help me.  I have a question regarding a stamp on a confederate flag (stars & bars).  The stamp reads: Sherritt Flag Co. Richmond, VA  100% cotton  38" x 38" Artillery
I wanted to know if there is any history to this flag co. and if that could lead to the age of the flag?
Thanks for your time.
Gabriel

Dear Gabriel:
I remember Sherritt Flag Company.  The flag you have was probably made in the 1960s.  Sherritt made many flags during the Civil War Centennial, but I think they went out of business in the early 1970s.

By the way, technically the flag you have is not the Stars and Bars.  The flag properly called the Stars and Bars was the original Confederate national flag, which resembled the US flag, but had 3 bars (2 red, 1 white) instead of 13 stripes.

Your flag is a replica of the battle flag type used by the Army of Northern Virginia.

Let me know if I can be of further help.  Devereaux Cannon

Q: In your work, have you ever come across a flag that would have been the official standard carried by the Pennsylvania Continental Line during the Revolutionary War?  More specifically, I'm seeking the regimental or battalion flag that would have been carried by the 4th Regiment of Artillery, Pennsylvania Continental Line, if this regiment had individual colors.  I doubt that very much though.  Thanks.
David

A:  Dear David:
According to Dr. Richard Sauers, author of "Advance the Colors," the only Pennsylvania Regiment flags to have survived from the Continental Army days are those of the 1st and 7th PA Regiments.  There is a "Proctor's Battalion" flag, which belonged to what was called an Associator battalion formed by Col. John Proctor, and recruited in Westmoreland County, PA, but this is not a Continental Army color.  Richard R. Gideon

A: We only know about a very few Revolutionary War unit colors out of what was probably several hundred at least that existed. As for PA, we know of the following flags with greater or lesser detail:

PA Navy
2 PA Rifle Regiments captured at Fort Washington 1776
Col. Magaw's Purple Standard (He was the commander of Ft. Washington and from PA) 
Philadelphia Light Horse
Hanover Associators
Westmoreland Battalion, Proctor's Brigade of 1775 (52nd Independent Battalion of Associators)
PA Rifle Regiment of 1775, 1st Continental Regiment of 1776 and 1st PA Regiment of 1777 (same flag)
Division Color of the 7th PA Regiment of 1776
5th PA Regiment
2nd PA Regiment of 1777
4th Battalion, Philadelphia Militia (1778)
2nd PA Field Battalion of 1781 (possibly created by the amalgamation of the 7th PA and the 4th PA 1 Jan. 1781)

To answer the other question, PA adopted its first militia colors in 1799.  No official single design was in use prior. You will need to sift through whatever papers, journals, diaries, etc. you can find associated with this unit.  We would be most interested in anything you find, even if it is somewhat incomplete.  Dave Martucci

Q: I live in a subdivision where the homeowners rules committee state that the American flag can only be flown on national holidays.  Being a veteran, I feel I should be able to fly the flag at any time there is an event that a flag should be flown to show pride in country (landing on the moon, mars etc., election time, etc.).  Are you aware of any laws that state the flying of the flag cannot be limited or regulated?  If so, I would appreciate where I can find this law to present to our rules committee.
Thank you! V. L


A: The U.S. Flag Code (now located in title 4, United States Code, sections 5 to 10) only sets out voluntary standards of flag etiquette, as there are no civil or criminal penalties for failing to follow the Flag Code's rules. The U.S. Flag Code does not legally supersede any state laws, city/county ordinances, or contracts (such as the rules of a homeowners association) that somehow restrict people from flying the U.S. flag whenever and however they choose.  I am not aware of any other federal laws or regulations that would supersede any state laws, city/county ordinances, or contracts, but you could argue that the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution gives you a free speech right to fly the flag.  This will be difficult, however, because the First Amendment only prevents the government from restricting your free speech rights, and your problem is with a homeowners association.  Although the U.S. Flag Code does not legally supersede your homeowners association rules, which are presumably a private contract between all the homeowners, I would certainly use the U.S. Flag Code to shame the association into changing the rules!

The Texas Flag Code (located in Texas Revised Statutes article 6139c) contains a provision that would help you if your problem was with some local government in Texas (like a city/county ordinance regulating flag use). Section 5 of the Texas Flag Code states:

(a) A governmental subdivision or agency may not enact or enforce a law that prohibits:
(1) the display of a municipal flag, the state flag, the flag of another state of the United States, the United States flag, or the flag of a nation other than the United States; or
(2) any conduct covered by this article [the Texas Flag Code, which parallels the U.S. Flag Code].
(b) This section does not apply to an action by a governmental subdivision or agency to enact or enforce a law established to protect the public health and safety.

This provision was specifically put in the 1993 revision of the Texas Flag Code to prohibit cities and counties from banning flags for "aesthetic" and advertising reasons. It probably wouldn't apply to homeowners association rules, as the rules are a private contract. For better or worse, the government rarely tries to interfere in private contracts.

Your best bet is to shame the homeowners into doing the right thing. Good luck!  Charles A. Spain Jr

 

Note as of February 2011: Texas flag law has been recodified in the Texas Government Code as follows:

Description of state flag: Government Code sections 3100.001 to 3100.004
Display of state flag: Government Code sections 3100.051 to 3100.072
Pledge of allegiance to state flag:Government Code sections 3100.101 to 3100.104
Retirement of state flag: Government Code sections 3100.151 to 3100.152

 

A:  The appropriate passage of the Flag Code (Chapter 174 USC Title 36) states: 

"(d) The flag should be displayed on all days, especially on New Year's Day, January 1; Inauguration Day, January 20; Lincoln's Birthday, February 12; Washington's Birthday, third Monday in February; Easter Sunday (variable); Mother's Day, second Sunday in May; Armed Forces Day, third Saturday in May; Memorial Day (half-staff until noon), the last Monday in May; Flag Day, June 14; Independence Day, July 4; Labor Day, first Monday in September; Constitution Day, September 17; Columbus Day, second Monday in October; Navy Day, October 27; Veterans Day, November 11; Thanksgiving Day, fourth Thursday in November; Christmas Day, December 25; and such other days as may be proclaimed by the President of the United States; the birthdays of States (date of admission); and on State holidays. 

(e) Display on or near administration building of public institutions:  The flag should be displayed daily on or near the
main administration building of every public institution.
 

See: www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/36/174.html

My interpretation of the above is that you are encouraged and authorized by Congress to voluntarily fly the flag EVERY DAY but especially on the named holidays.  All public institutions are to fly the flag daily.  Hope this helps.  Dave Martucci

(NOTE: The flag code was recently amended to include Martin Luther King's birthday...Ed)


Q: Hi Dave:
I have always had an interest in making flags for fun but have never done so.  Now, with the market booming and seeing so many flags in people's yards, I'm itching to try it.  Many of the designs I see are simple enough.  Of course, they are all ones purchased for display in a yard.  My design skills are under par, but I care very much about the design end of it.  

Now for the urgent part of this email. I have a function coming up that it would be really nice to have a flag for.  It is a convention, so to speak, of a bunch of players of a game called Ultima Online.  I would very much like to make a flag to display at my campsite.  The date is February 11th, I think.  I would like to make this flag myself.  I have sewing equipment and a little experience.  I have examined many of the yard flags for sale in my area.  Of course, some are simply printed.  Others are stitched.  The system I think would work well for this flag appears to be the design sewn into overlapping layers of material with a wide, close stitched zigzag and the excess cut away.  At least that is what it appears to be to me.  I have seen flags and kites made from a finely woven material that is pretty from both sides.  So far, I haven't been able to find such a material for sale.  

What I am asking you is two things: Could you recommend reading material to help in the manufacture of this flag? Something I can get my hands on very quickly, please. I found you on my first look at the Internet for such literature. I may have found something else by the time you read this. The next question is Could you recommend a place to buy flag or kite material? I think there is time to mail-order the material and still make the flag. I can surely find something at the local fabric store to get started with the practicing of making and accenting the flag. 

A: Hello Miles:
Congratulations on deciding to make flags!  It is really pretty easy, and it seems you have a lead on how to make them.  A very good book on the subject is "Make Your Own Outdoor Flags and Banners" by Marsha McCloskey and Linda Moore
(Feathered Star Productions, 7001 Third Ave NW, Seattle WA 98117, (206) 782-0807; 1996).  It includes a good listing of material suppliers.  Also, check the Commercial Members page on the NAVA web site at http://www.nava.org and go
to the Table of Contents, then to the Commercial Members page.  Please send me a photo of your finished work!
Dave Martucci

Q: I was wondering if you could assist me in locating information on the Jolly Roger Flag.  I am the president of a local volunteer fire department, and someone had flown a jolly roger flag on our flagpole, last week.  This created quite a stir with a few of the older members. (Some of who are Navy Veterans.)  These members were very upset at this flag flying in front of our firehouse stating that it  was extremely disrespectful, and that the Jolly Roger Flag is a terrible thing, however, they could not state specifically what was wrong with the skull & crossbones flag.  I hold these members in high regard, and I would like to respond appropriately to their concern.  Any information that you could offer, or any web site that you could point me to, will be greatly appreciated.
Thank You,
Richard

A: Dear Richard :

The traditional "Jolly Roger" is associated with the pirates of the Atlantic seaboard and Carribbean in the late 17th and early 18th centuries.  There were actually many different pirate flags at the time, only a few of which resemble the common "Skull and Crossbones" that we know today.  Actually, it is believed the name "Jolly Roger" is derived from the French "Joli Rouge" which means the Red cloth.  We know from records that the red flag was often flown by pirates as meaning "No Quarter Given." 

Actually, your Navy Veterans should know that during WWII the Royal Navy Submarine service used the Skull and Crossbones as a distinguishing signal that had small symbols added to it to indicate the number and type of Axis kills that each submarine made.  I am at a loss why anyone would think that flying this flag is disrespectful (of what?).  The flag is commonly sold by Marine suppliers for the yachting crowd as a novelty flag.  I suppose the historical associations of the flag might signify an anti-government attitude in the 16 and 1700s. 
Dave Martucci
Q: The meeting in Victoria, BC this year was the 33rd NAVA Convention (along with being the 18th ICV). Why is NAVA News only up to Volume 32?  I thought it was started right at the beginning in 1967.

A: NAVA News Vol. 1, No. 1 was published in October, 1967.  This first volume was issued in eight numbers as follows: No. 2, November 1967; No. 3, December 1967; No. 4, January 1968; No. 5, March 1968; No. 6, April 1968; No. 7, June 1968; and No. 8, September, 1968.  After that, each volume coincided with a calendar year so that Volume 32 has been published in 1999.  Dave Martucci
Q: Could you tell me the symbolism of the coat of arms of the Peruvian flag?  Thanks

A: Hello:
The present Peruvian Coat of Arms was established by the Constitutional Congress the 24th of February of 1825, with Simon Bolivar presiding as 'Libertador-Presidente."  This decree also abolished the previous one created in 1822.  The symbolism is quite eloquent: The shield is divided (following heraldic terminology) per pale, per fess the base.  The first quarter is of blue with a "vicun~a" ( a relative of the llama). The second quarter is a "quina" on white, and lower quarter is of red with a cornucopia (aka horn of plenty) with golden coins. (Azure, silver, and gules following once more the heraldic terminology for the color-tincture, and metals represented.)  Each element is representative of the ;"beauty found in Peru on each of the three realms of nature," animal, plants and minerals.  As a final heraldic note, the "vicun~a" should be looking towards the left (from the viewers point of view.) but that does not seem to bother the vicun~a.
B.Rgds
Gustav Tracchia

Q: Dear David:
I was just on your web site and I have a question for you.  I am trying to make a flag w/ my son (7 yrs old) and I can't find the basic dimensions/ratios for creating the American flag.  Specifically, how wide is the blue field compared to the entire length of the flag.  If you know this or where I can find the info I would greatly appreciate your help.
Yours,
Jeanne


Dear Jeanne:
Although you are not required to follow them, the President has proclaimed official specifications for the US Flag as used by the government and the military. These are the only specs that have been issued. They are: 
A. Hoist (Width) .............. 1.0
B. Fly (Length) ............... 1.9
C. Hoist (of Union) ........... 0.5385 (7/13)
D. Fly (of Union) ............. 0.76
E&F. Vertically between stars ... 0.054
G&H. Horizontal between stars ... 0.063
K. Diameter of star ........... 0.0616
L. Width of stripe ............ 0.0769 (1/13)

The letters refer to the schematic drawing, attached.

Dave Martucci

Q:  I was looking on the internet for information for a research paper and found your site.  I cannot find much history on semaphore or flaghoist (flags used aboard ships).  I wanted to know when they came into use - the first ones to use it - when they became international - why we use it - and as much else I could use in my report.  If you would, please reply to this message and let me know what I can do to find this information or if you have any information on the subjects.  Thank you.
Adam 

A: Hi Adam:
Good luck on your paper. It sounds very interesting and one we would like to hear about at our NAVA Convention in October.

At the NAVA Convention in Toronto in 1990 there was a paper on signal flags that won an award.  The NAVA historian would have this paper on file.  I'll forward your message to the NAVA President who has his address.  There is another NAVA member who has done research on signal flags, Dr. Henry Moeller.  He may have more information you could use.  Lee L. Herold

(Note: The following question concerns illuminating the US Flag at night...Ed)

Q: There has been different points of view on this matter in the Adrian area.  The local Legion and AMVETS asked me about it.  Basically someone has said there are no laws per this situation.  I think you would guess what I told them.  If anyone would care to help me with this I will be grateful.  I would like to generate some hard copies that I can take to them.  Thank you.
Robert 

A: According to the 1976 amended version of the Flag Code, language was added that allows the flag to be flown at night....as long as it properly illuminated.  We define proper illumination as being able to distinguish the stars and the stripes and the colors of the flag.  Of course, the Flag Code is a code of conduct and does not carry the weight of the law. (Robert)  is a member of NFF and a wonderful person...very patriotic.  Robert, I wish you my best.  Dave White
(NAVA Member David White is director of the National Flag Foundation, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania...Ed)

Q: I recently came across a U.S. flag with 42 stars.  They are arranged in 6 rows of 7 stars.  The stars are not sewn on, but printed, as are the stripes.  The blue field is sewn.  It is approximately 5 feet by 7 feet.  I would love to know during what time period this flag was in use.  Thank you for any information you can provide.  Larry

A: Larry, this is most likely an "anticipated flag" made in 1890 before it was known that Idaho would achieve statehood recognition on July 3rd of that year.  This is not an official U.S. flag.  All new states were recognized by a change in the number of stars on the 4th of July next following their recognition. The flag contained 38 stars up to July 3, 1890 and the next official flag contained 43 stars as North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, and Washington all having been admitted in 1889 and Idaho admitted 3 July 1890 , became represented in the 43 star flag which became official 4th of July, 1890.  One more star was added the following year with the admission of Wyoming making 44. Source: LONG MAY IT WAVE by Dr. Whitney Smith.  Quoting from Dr. Smith's book: "Manufacturers and private individuals throughout the 19th century often anticipated the congressional approval necessary for a territory to become a new state by making flags which contained stars that were not yet official. ... the ... situation occurred when Idaho achieved recognition as a state on the third of July.  Since all new states are recognized by a change in the Stars and Stripes on the "Fourth of July next following," the anticipated 42-star flag never formally existed.  Examples of such unofficial flags, made in advance of statehood, are sometimes found by collectors and museums."  Truman Pope
Q: Hi, I was interested in any information you can send me on a flag with 42 stars.... How many are there in the world today.  The history of the 42 star flag.  Also if it is valuable?  How can I tell if this flag is authentic.  This flag is 4x6.  Anything you can tell me will be greatly appreciated...  Thank You  Cathy 

A: Hello Cathy:
A 42 star US Flag is very collectable, but there were a lot of them made in 1890 and so its value is probably not real high. But it is a valuable piece of American history. What you have is what we call "The Flag That Didn't Officially Exist!"

Here's the story. As you probably know, the US Flag changes on the 4th of July following admission of a state or states by the addition of the appropriate number of new stars. In 1889, the US Flag had 38 stars. On November 2, 1889,
Congress admitted North and South Dakota. On November 8, 1889, Montana was admitted. Washington joined the Union on November 11th. This brought the number of state in the Union to 42.

So everybody who made flags made up 42 star flags. Since this was the largest number of new stars since 1777, many flags were made. However, on July 3, 1890 (the day before the new stars were to be officially added), Congress admitted
Idaho! So the official flag on July 4, 1890 had 43 stars! But there are very few of these in existence. Just seven days later Wyoming was admitted so the flag went to 44 stars on July 4, 1891. Probably very few 43 star flags were ever made.

A flag can be authenticated by analyzing a number of factors.  

Size.
Materials.
Condition.
Construction techniques.
Inscriptions.

Send me a photo of it and I'll try to help you out.  Dave Martucci

(NOTE: THIS QUESTION ORIGINALLY RAN A FEW WEEKS AGO, BUT NEW INFORMATION HAS BEEN ADDED, SO IT HAS BEEN MOVED TO THE TOP...Ed.)

Q: I'm helping my son with a school project and am trying to find info on the 13 year old who designed Alaska's state flag, Benny Benson .Can't find much info on him, do you have any? Thanks!  JTB

A: I don't really have any more information, except that I understand the contest for his winning entry was sponsored by the American Legion and that he had a lighter blue in his design.  I have no source for this information.  Also, I talked to someone in my store who knew him, and they said he was quite a promoter of Alaska, the Alaskan flag, and that he also wrote songs about Alaska including one he proposed as the Alaskan state song.  Again, this is second hand without a source.  Lee L. Herold

AND....

I don't know much about Benny Benson, but here's what I do know.

Benny Benson, a Native American, was 13 in 1926 when he designed the Alaska flag.  He was then a student at the Mission Territorial School near Seward.  His design was the winning entry in a Territorial Flag contest, for which he received $1,000 voted by the legislature to further his education.  He later became a fisherman. His sketch and the original flag made from it are now in the Alaska Historical Museum in Juneau.  ("Flag Book of the United States" by Whitney Smith [Morrow & Co., New York, 1970], pg. 103.)

I suggest you might write to the school and to the museum cited above for more details on Benny.  If you find out more, we would very much appreciate knowing what your research reveals so that we can all benefit. Thanks.  Dave Martucci

(We recently received the following updates on the Benny Benson story...Ed)

Dave--

I haven't looked at the NAVA web page since I came back from Victoria, but I've finally got a few vacation days and I've been reading it all.  It really _is_ great.

In one of the recent Q&A's was a question about the Alaska flag.  There was no e-mail address so I don't know how to give an additional response, so I'll tell you.

The definitive book is called "God Flies Benny's Flag" by Velma Moos Potter, 1989.  My copy is a paperback--I thought I got it in Juneau, but I haven't been to Alaska since the mid-80's, so I probably got it in Seattle.  It is from Frontier Publishing , 322 Queen Anne Avenue, North, Seattle, WA 98109. (ISBN: 0-939116-20-0)

It is 235 pages and is a well-researched biography of that boy and the man he became.  Ms. Potter is a retired librarian who had found it annoying in earlier years that she couldn't readily get information beyond the basics: designed by a 13 year schoolboy in an orphanage.  When she retired she researched and here it is.  Not the tightest writing, but well worth it.

The questioner might want to try to find the publisher or look for it on alibris.com (I haven't had the time yet).

--Jack Lowe

(FOTW provided the following information, which was originally posted on their site.  We thank them for their courtesy...Ed)

Appended two quick items I previously posted on the old FOTW bulletin board.

I am attaching a message I posted on the Flags bulletin board a while back.  Benny Benson died in Kodiak, Alaska on July 2, 1972.  I believe he is buried there.  he book -God Flies Benny's Flag- was available in many places in Alaska and could be ordered by any bookstore--I believe it' s still in print. ----Jack

I also have a question myself.  I read that the flags of Kiribati and Nauru were the winners of design competitions.  Have any other flags been designed in similar circumstances?

It is well known here in the States that at the time of the admission of Alaska to the Union in 1960, a design competition was held for their state flag that was won by a schoolboy for which I believe he received a nominal sum of money and the enduring admiration of students everywhere.  The winning entry is the now familiar small cluster of gold stars on a blue field.

The Alaska state flag was designed by John Bell (Benny) Benson, a thirteen year-old in an orphanage in response to a contest sponsored by the Alaska Department of the American Legion.  The prize was awarded in 1927.  The flag was adopted by the Territorial Legislature in May, 1927 as Alaska's official flag.  The flag is dark blue, with eight five-pointed gold stars in the shape of the constellation Ursa Major (the great bear--also known as the "big dipper") and a larger gold star representing the pole star, Polaris.  When Alaska entered the Union in 1959, the territorial flag became the state flag.  All the designs for the contest, as well as Benny's prize--a gold watch engraved with the flag--are in the Alaska State Museum in Juneau.  He did also win a $1000 trip to Washington, D.C.. to present the flag to President Coolidge, but never went because first his father was ill, and then President Coolidge was out of the country, so the $1000 was put to his education instead.  Benny also picked the forget-me-not as the territorial (later state) flower.  (Source: _God Flies Benny's Flag_ by Velma Moos Potter, Frontier Publishing, Seattle, 1989)

Q: I am interested in acquiring an old US Navy ensign of the variety known as a 'boat flag'.  This was a 13 star flag with the stars arranged 3/2/3/2/3, which, as far as I know, was used during most of the 19th century and into the early part of the 20th century.  What can you tell me about these flags?"  Devereaux

A: Devereaux,
In respect to your search for a thirteen star U.S. Navy "boat flag", I have been researching these as a side line for the past five years. Here are some observations based on my research: The U.S. Navy distinctive "boat flags" wherein the number of stars in the canton was reduced to make them more visible (i.e. larger) seems to have been adopted in the middle of the 1850's.  (One of the "boat flag" size flags that Perry carried into Japan in 1853 bears the full compliment of 31 stars, while the earliest marked boat flag I have seen from the Boston Navy Yard- and so marked- is dated 1857.)  From at least 1857 through 1861, U.S. Navy "boat flags" bore 16 stars, set in four rows of 4 stars each.  Although some have speculated that the number of stars was chosen to reflect the rebirth of the U.S. Navy in 1798 (when 16 states formed the Union), I suspect that the reason for the 16 stars was merely a matter of practicality.  The thirteen star U.S. Navy boat flag seems to have originated in 1862 (based on the surviving boat flag of the U.S.S. Ironsides, which was launched that year and sunk in 1864). The 1863 Navy Regulations list five sizes in the "boat flag" catagory, with fly dimensions respectively of 5, 6, 7, 8 and 10 feet. (These sizes continued in force until at least 1880, as they are listed in Preble's second volume.)  From the period of 1862 to about 1870-1875, the boat flags bore the thirteen stars in three horizontal rows- 4-5-4. The date of transition to the most common pattern is not yet known, but the launch of the U.S.S. Saginaw (whose ship was sunk in 1870) still uses the 4-5-4 pattern.)  Somewhere in the 1870's the Navy changed the star pattern of the U.S. Navy "boat flags" to five horizontal rows: 3-2-3-2-3.  This star pattern continued in this style until the "boat flag" was discontinued in 1916.  However, there are a number of changes that were affected during the period of this pattern that distinguish flags within certain periods. These include:  1870-1885- stars in canton do not "point" in any consistent direction.  1885-1890- marking on heading lists the size of the flag, eg. "U.S.E. No. 8" brass grommets (dated 1884) replace hand whipped button holes.  1890-1900- stars are oriented in common directions; rows of 3 "up", rows of 2, "down"; the heading is now marked with size, location of navy yard where the flag was made and the date (month/year) of production.  1900-1916- stars all oriented "up", dates no longer appear on brass grommets, stars applied to canton with machine, zig-zag stitch.  

What confuses the issue of these true U.S. Navy boat flags is the adoption of the same star pattern as "patriotic" expressions of the United States centennial and the continued commercial production of these flags well into the current century for sale to the general public. So far these have been found in a number of styles and sizes, and I doubt that we'll ever have a "handle" on the variations that exist(ed).  Howard Madaus

Q: Dave:
The attachment that I have sent you is a flag that has been in my family many years. I believe it is from the revolutionary war but I cannot find any pictures or anything about it. Anything to enhance my knowledge about what this flag is would be greatly appreciated. My E-mail is  scottym@mindspring.com. 
Thanks,
Scott



A: Scott:
I received your email and attached photo. What an interesting item! It isn't Revolutionary War, but I think it is almost as rare. My guess (and at this point it is only that; I'll ask around for a consensus) is that it is 19th century (judging by the style of painting and the construction) and that it may be somehow connected to the State of Kansas (the repeated sunflower motif is an emblem of Kansas and has been unofficially since territorial days and officially since at least 1903). Maybe it was used during the celebration of the admission of Kansas in 1861. It has 49 stars on it but that must just be decorative since the US Flag only had 49 stars officially in 1959-60.

I am curious what the rest of it (out of the picture) looks like. Whatever it turns out to be, one thing is sure, it is fascinating!  Dave Martucci

Dave, Richard, and Nick:
I received Dave's e-mails with the photograph attachments earlier but could not respond until I had culled a pile of unanswered correspondence in search of several photographs I had received earlier this year.  I finally found the group, which turned out to be a letter from The Horse Soldier (a Civil War dealer in Gettysburg) dated 29 April 1999, wherein they asked about a flag that perplexed them.  Four photographs were enclosed with the inquiry, and, after checking the photographs against the three images in Dave's attachment, there is no question in my mind that the flag in both groups of images is the same.  (I had hoped that we were looking at two different "flags" of the same type, but the breaks in the stripes and the other evidences of deterioration all indicate that this is the same flag in both groups of photos.)
     Now, as to what the flag is (if it is a flag at all-- which seems somewhat questionable given the gold fringe down both sides of the blue sections; I'm not even sure if these are two disparate pieces that have been joined; but for now let's consider that it is a flag), I'm really at loss to say.  Dave's observation with the second e-mail points out a small thirteen star under the eagle's wing.  The star pattern on this is 4-5-4.  My experience to date with thirteen star flags has shows a very few flags of this pattern that doe date from the 1780's until the turn of the 18th-19th centuries; however, by far most of the surviving thirteen star flags having this pattern of stars fall into the category of U.S. Navy boat flags from the period 1862-1870. (Before 1862, I have found that the Navy's boat flags were 16 star-- at least as far back as 1857; and after 1870, the star count is 13 but in five horizontal rows, 3,2,3,2,3.)  That may be a clue to the dating of the upper section of the blue section(s) of the left of the obverse of the flag, but I cannot explain the ambitious star count (7 groups of 7 each = 49).
     One other thought passes my mind.  Is the bird in the upper section of the blue actually an eagle?  A different interpretation could find it a dove.  The object in its beak seems to be a feather or a quill (or a branch?)  In additional element integrated into the circle with the bird (eagle or dove) seems to be a figure of the globe, concentrating on the western hemisphere.  Is this possibly some sort of "peace" flag or hanging, say from between the two world wars?  If the upper design in the blue with the 49 stars represents figures from the northern hemisphere, does the flora in the lower half represent some national, regional, or continental symbolism from "south of the border"?  I'm just throwing out ideas haphazardly, because this doesn't meld with anything that fits into the 19th century flag symbolism I have seen.
Regards- Howard Madaus

Q: I am the Program Director of the local Boy Scout Council in Columbia, SC.  This morning a lady called our office to ask about the symbolism of the colors of the stripes in the American Flag.  She indicated that her son was asked on a third grade history exam about the symbolism of the red stripes.  He answered that the red stripes represented the blood of American patriots, etc.  This answer was marked incorrect.  What is the correct answer?  Can you please refer me to a source for this information?  Our BSA Flag literature does not give any answers.
Thank you for your assistance.
 
Todd Kelly
Program Director
Indian Waters Council
Boy Scouts of America


A: Todd:
Thanks for your inquiry. The correct answer is that there is no official meaning to any of the colors in the US Flag. Congress' only statement regarding any symbolism of any of the elements of the flag is that the stars represent "a new constellation" and that is all. In some books you can find a statement attributed to George Washington about the meaning of the colors but that was made up in the latter 19th century when Centennial publicists couldn't find anything from the source. 

It is true that the red and white "pales" in the US Coat of Arms (look on the back of a $1 bill) represent the states and the blue "chief" represents Congress, but this device, adopted in 1782, is very different than the flag and its symbolism is not the same as the flag.

In reality, the red on the flag derives from the British flag (which as usually used in the colonies was red with the British Union in the canton).  Red has been a traditional English color since the time of the Crusades.

The NAVA web site has three pages (for the present) of questions and answers that cover many different topics, a number of which relate to the US Flag.  You may want to become familiar with them. http://www.nava.orgDave Martucci

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