| Note: the following are letters received by NAVA
concerning the Provincial/State flag survey. If you'd like to
weigh-in on the subject send your comments to Mr.
Ted Kaye, the survey's editor. PLEASE
SIGN YOUR NAME, AND PLEASE DO NOT SEND YOUR RESPONSES TO THE WEBMASTER. |
17 June 2001
I am a Citizen of Vermont; my people have been here for a very, very
long
time, no one actually knows exactly how long. And while our flag might
be a
bit complicated for some, and maybe confusing from a distance, at least
it's
meaning and the values it holds for us native Vermonters is crystal
clear.
I also feel that it should be unnecessary to recognize a state flag from
a
distance, in time of war, one would hope that all the states would be on
the
same side, fighting under the federal flag, which is recognizable by
everyone anywhere in the world.
This leaves the state flag as a banner and reminder to each state's
citizens of the ones who came before, to serve, and if needed, to die in
order to protect and maintain the states originality, honor, and
dignity.
When I gaze upon the flag of my state, I remember the great things this
tiny
state has accomplished, often in the lead, ahead of other states,
sometimes
the results may not be for the better, yet at least my people have the
courage to stand up and try. When I look at the (quote) "bed
sheet" design,
of my flag, I see an orderly design, gracefully and tastefully done,
that
lends dignity and meaning to my flag. And I know that the ones who
designed
our flag, tried to put the ideals of all the Vermont people into it.
Under
the constraints of the rules and regulations of the times I feel they
did a
remarkable job!
When I look at your "winning" flag I see something that cannot
possibly hold
any meaning to any one. The design, while conforming to your
rules, appears
to me as gaudy, unremarkable and un-remember able. What purpose will
this
flag have to her people? What will it remind them of? That the emblem
was
stolen from the Zia Pueblo? (Article from the Rutland Harold)
Will this teach future generations of New Mexico's citizens that
it is ok
to steal? Property whether intellectual or material, still belongs to
someone. If I was a citizen of New Mexico I don't think I would want a
flag
design that came from a water jar! I would want a flag that
actually meant
something to my people, even if it ended up being visually complicated.
After all, the flag of each state is not a simple signal device to land
a
plane, or send a message over visual distance, but a symbol of the
states
heritage, values and people. How can one send the message of these
ideals
with a flag that has a simple paint splotch on it?
In the hierarchy of flags, our great flag of the United States is very
simple, it symbolizes all the states as one, and it tells the story of
one
great nation. Then the state flags lend a greater detail of each state's
individuality in this great nation, its purpose is to remind the people
of
the state.
If I am correct in my feelings, and each states seal is meant to convey
the
ideals of the state, then would it not be proper to use this seal as a
flag?
When one sees the flag, and the seal of the state, one can remember all
that
it stands for, as each part of a seal has a certain message in it. And I
personally enjoy the simple beauty of the state seals, as well as the
meanings.
And if one could see all the state flags flying together at once, with
the
nations flag up front, all with the same theme, a simple solid
background,
with each states seal; this would lend a sense of dignity and solidarity
as
well as a sense of the nations true power, while at the same time
showing
what each individual state stands for.
I think what I am trying to convey is that, I don't need a simple flag
to be
able to remember it, much less recognize it, and that I don't think I
personally would care for a state flag that is bright and flashy, or
gaudy.
That my state flag suites me just fine, I like the colors and design, I
like
the way the background and seal go together, they are warm and pleasing
colors. When I look at my state flag I feel the impression of
orderliness,
dignity and simple strength.
The Vermont flag gives me the impression that it has been around for a
while and that it will be here for a long time to come, I like the
feeling
of security it gives me in knowing that there are a lot of other
Vermonters
out there that feel as I do.
I like the sense of dignity, formality and simple honesty it gives me, I
like the lump I get in my throat when I see the flag and remember all it
took us as a nation to be able to raise this and every other state flag
every morning.
To make this short and simple, who are you to nock my flag? To say it's
not
good, or too complicated. What authority do you have to even consider
judging what makes a good flag? I can tell you what makes Vermont's flag
great, it's not the colors, or the pattern stuck to its face, it's not
how
legible it is from miles away.
It is because Vermonters, my people, my family, my friends, my neighbors
and
maybe even some enemies of the people that I mentioned above, at some
point
in time, got together and decided that this flag is what they want to
represent them to all the other states and to the world as well.
And one final thing before I go, I believe that I read in your
requirements
that a flag should be able to be remembered and drawn by a child, I can
vaguely remember, as a child in school, actually drawing the state flag
from
memory.
And I can defiantly remember the state flag and the United States flag
in
our little classroom, and can remember the pledge of allegiance to the
flag.
Something I feel is sadly missing nowadays.
Signed, A proud Vermonter.
Note: Although "A proud Vermonter"
did not sign this E-mail, we decided to run it in order to give a fair
airing to this alternate opinion.
21 June 2001
I completely agree with the Citizen from Vermont. I find my
views
agreeing somewhat with yours, yet believe the origin of is a symbol of a
groups patriotism. It should not be super complex, that a young
child
could not draw a simular version of their flag. But, on the other
hand
if every flag simplistic there would be confusion, like when the Texas
flag was flown over Mexico for one day and only a few people noticed.
That I think is from an American point of view as funny, but from a
Mexican point of view a disrepectful prank.
When I was in elementarey school one day in class we drew pictures of
any flag we wanted. Some drew easy flags(i.e. Texas, U.S., medical
cross, etc.), while some others drew harder flags(many of your choices
of worst flags). When everything was done the teacher told us to
explain why we choose the flag we did, unknown to us before hand.
Many
explained they made their flag solely because they were easy and wanted
to do something else. I said that I recreated the Minnesota flag
because it was my states flag. as well as, I wanted to challenge myself
because it was difficult.
Beauty if in the eye of the beholder.
For my state patriotism you look down on my state. Or are you
trying to
pretend that you have the power, to force groups to change their flags?
You will claim that it is your right to free speach, but that holds true
only in America. You have no rights to free speach in other
countrys.
If other country's had laws that find disrespect to their flag as
punishable by death, would you be guilty and should you be held
accountable for your guilt? Who are you to judge tradition and
taste?
You might like a certain style of art, but that does not mean other
styles of art are worst than others. If the Ku Klux Klan made a
flag
with just thier organizations letters by your stand point it would be
considered a good flag, or better than most state flags.
Be thankful you live in a country that afford YOU the right to freedom
of choice, many people around the world don't.
Derrick
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5 July 2001
Letter from Fred Thomas, Montana
Question: what right to you people have
in making remarks about our state flag? If you had taken time to
examine it you would have discovered that despite its simple design
you would have seen the logo depicted out state history. The same
applies with several other flags that did not meet with your approval.
I am getting tired of you easterners trying to change not only our
flag, but geographical names of our rivers and mountains just because
they do not meet with your ideas.
Fine if you are requested to help design a
flag, stick with that. Considering your choice of New Mexico's simple
flag, I wonder where you came up with that first place choice. What
does it tell? How a simple design of yellow means anything.
So folks, come and visit our state then go
home and leave it the way you found it. At least out here we
have breathing room to fly our flags without stepping on our next door
neighbor.
Fred Thomas
Historical & Legal Research
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5 July 2001
Former NAVA president John Gamez responds
Dear Fred:
Your first mistake, I am not an Easterner. I was born and raised in Texas.
Your second mistake. You assume that we have no right
of commentary. If you will check your national Constitution there is a
little thing called Freedom of Speech. We are simply exercising that
right.
Third mistake. You assume that a flag has to be some
sort of hieroglyph that instantly tells the viewer all about the place
or organization that it represents. Tell me, what does the flag of the
United States tell you about the fight for social justice, the freedom
of religion, press, and association? What does it tell you about the
many wars fought under it and of all of the humanitarian activities
accomplished in it's name? What does it tell you about the
technological achievements made throughout it's history that have made
the United States a world leader?
Fourth mistake. You assume that because New Mexico's
flag is distinctive that it has no meaning. It has no meaning - to
you. That's what you meant to say. You say that you are in
"historical and legal research". Do a little research and
find out the meaning, then go look at a display of U.S. state flags
flying in a moderate breeze from a distance and pick out Montana's
from New York or Michigan or Nebraska. And if you hate Easterners so
much, why do you want to copy the flag of Maine, Vermont, New
Hampshire, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, and Virginia?
Fifth mistake. You are assuming that this is an
attack on boring flags. It's called a "critique" (Look it
up).
Sixth mistake. You refer to the emblem on the center of
Montana's flag as a "logo". Please do some research on this.
This is not a "logo". A "logo" is a simplified
ideograph that can represent a public or private organization. The
idea of the logo is not to depict anything in particular about the
organization, but simply to instantly identify it. Tell me what the
logo of the Oakland Raiders football club tell you about the team. It
doesn't tell you anything - it simply identifies the team.
The emblem on Montana's flag is a "seal" with
the main portion being a typically Americanized, Victorian style, over
embellished, coat-of-arms. It is not a "logo".
As for visiting Montana, I have never been there, but I
have been to some similarly desolate places, namely New Mexico,
Arizona, Alaska, Egypt, and the State of Western Australia. What I
can say about those places, besides their natural beauty, is that they
have better flags than Montana.
Considering your indignation over a simple analysis on
the relative merits of flag designs, can I assume that there is little
else to do in Montana other than hunt, fish, and barricade one self
against Federal agents?
You would also probably get really pissed off if you
saw my proposals for a redesigned, and heraldically correct
coat-of-arms. My designs are far superior to what Montana currently
employs.
All of my love,
John
p.s. Go ahead and look up "heraldic" while
you are at it.
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